In May, the Biophysical Society sponsored a Networking Event at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, called “Early Careers in Biophysics: Leveraging Your Ph.D.” Recent alumni and a current student sat on a panel to share their experiences and talk about what they are currently working on in the early stages of their careers.
The event was hosted and the panel was chaired by Kevin Lauterjung, who helped get the conversation started by introducing all of the panelists: Muhammad Khalifa, director of Marketing & Sales for WiSolve Consulting Group and a current student; Ellen Crummy, a postdoctoral researcher at Promega; Michael Bucci, a patent agent at K&L Gates, LLP; Danielle Stewart, a scientific specialist at Covance; and Julia Nepper, a science writer at Promega.
What does a typical day look like for you?
Nepper said that for her position, each day varies. She does a lot of editing and writing technical manuals, working on social media, and writing feature articles and video scripts. She said that at the end of the work day she gets to go home and is done with work for the day, and then comes back to do it again the next day.
Stewart’s position involves interacting with management, teams, and customers. She works on lots of planning for each experiment with clients, and spends time training people on new equipment. She spends about a quarter to a third of her day in the lab, and isn’t in the lab otherwise.
Bucci, a patent agent at a law firm focused on biotechnology, has a very different day-to-day from the other panelists. He reviews patent applications, talks to inventors, helps write applications, and spends a lot of time reading and writing from a legal point of view. He explained the technique of “prosecuting” applications, or figuring out how best to argue for them. Another task he works on is conducting landscape studies, which can help future applications by having the knowledge of what else is already out there. He said that the amount of science you can be aware of as a patent agent is broader than if you are working on the bench.
Crummy works in the lab and reads papers a lot. She has a lot of meetings for a specific project, and makes more presentations than in graduate school.
Khalifa’s position is interesting, as he is a current student who is also a director for a nonprofit consulting group. With the consulting group, he helps develop projects from university labs into science start-ups. He doesn’t do experiments for people, but he helps with grants. He spends a lot of time thinking about how scientific discoveries can be marketable.
When they were in school, did the panelists expect to land where they are now?
Stewart said that in grad school she knew she wanted to be a scientist but didn’t want to be a professor, because she didn’t like the idea of having to always write for money. She thanked her mentors for their help in preparing for her career.
Bucci said that he definitely did not expect to land where he is. He didn’t know about this job when he was starting out. He said that he liked science in his undergraduate years and just continued into graduate school without much of a plan. He started looking into options while in grad school, actually going to an event similar to this about careers in intellectual property and hearing about this career path, which interested him. He said that he got lucky and got his top choice for a job. The special preparations he did were mostly learning what the job entailed and how to tailor his experience for that.
Crummy started by thinking about industry, then leaning toward academia. She said that she started to feel burnt out on her project and almost left science. She joked that she never wanted to touch a pipette again. Then she decided to try industry R&D, and found that she still loves doing science—she was just tired of her grad school project.
Nepper explained that she didn’t know about science writing as a career choice. She joked that she stuck to her guns more than Crummy about being tired of doing science, deciding that it would be great to write and teach people about research instead of conducting it herself. She said that she is gaining valuable skills in her position.
Khalifa said he had amazing mentors for his undergrad. His PI in grad school had worked in industry for a time before returning to academia, so she was able to share her experience and knowledge about that career path. His field of interest is pretty specific: jobs that combine business plus science consulting work. He saw a flyer on campus about the nonprofit when it was getting started and he decided to join. He thought it was a great way to combine the business skills he acquired in his undergraduate study with his science interests. He says he may eventually return to academia, but to check back with him in a year to see how he’s feeling. When he was in undergrad, he had a hard time finding any combination of science and business, and he’s glad to have found it here.
Bucci was asked if he has a law degree, to which he said that he doesn’t and that it’s not required to have a law degree to be a patent agent.
How difficult was it to overcome the fear of leaving academia?
Stewart answered first, saying that she’s a bold person, and she knew she had to make a decision. She advised that you can always go back if it’s not a good fit. What helped her decide was that she wanted time off, better hours, and less grant stress. In academia it was hard to tell if some people were really living for science or for grant writing.
Crummy wasn’t happy with life as a grad student. In industry the money is there, you don’t have to write grants. She said she was just ready for a change.
Bucci challenged the spirit of the question itself, saying if you think there’s something wrong with a non-academic career, to think about it from a numbers standpoint. Not all PhDs can become a tenured professor; there is only so much funding, and grants aren’t ever-expanding.
Stewart said that how you feel matters. See how you feel working an 8 AM to 4 PM schedule versus 12 to 15 hours between labs and classes.
Nepper mentioned that it is important to remember that the interesting and exciting parts of being in academia can also exist outside of academia (sometimes paying more for less work!)
Khalifa said that he hears that concern a lot, and it is a false dichotomy to pit industry and academia against each other like they are the only two options. Only about 8% of PhDs work in academia. Thinking you have to stay in academia constricts your thought. A career isn’t two options and you have to choose one. He encourages people to think of a career as a basket; you should decide what you like to do and try to get more of that in your basket, and less of what you don’t like in your basket.
Bucci said there’s nothing wrong with academia though! It’s not here to defend itself in this panel!
The audience found this pretty funny.
How did Khalifa get involved with the nonprofit? What is the time commitment like?
Khalifa got in at the ground level as it was getting started, and it has evolved over the past three years. The time commitment varies depending on the position. As a director, he meets regularly with the other directors and has a range of responsibilities. Non-directors can expect about 5-10 hours a week some week, as consultants. Some PIs aren’t as supportive of the extra-curricular as his is, so some people keep it quiet.
In regards to time management, lab work, and other career things, how did grad school prepare you for your current positions?
Nepper answered that grad school prepared her to figure out how to do new things that have never been done before. She was very busy in grad school, doing all sorts of extra activities. Doing all that was helpful in establishing a network of people and organizations that knew her and may be able to hire her or help her. Her grad school research didn’t prepare her for her current position, but the things she did outside of bench work did help.
Stewart’s grad school experience did prepare her. She knew how to write grants, set up and execute experiments, and fix mistakes quickly in experiments. She also uses a lot of the “soft skills” she honed in grad school, like people skills and communication.
Bucci’s time in grad school was indispensable for what he does now. He knows how to argue that something is new and how biotechnology research is conducted. He says that he couldn’t do what he does now without his grad school experience. Learning how to write scientifically also helped. Even though he doesn’t do that anymore, he has to write legally. Being able to state an argument in a specific way is important.
Crummy said it did help her, even though she’s doing a different type of science now. After she was hired she was trained on new techniques and picked up those skills. Part of being a scientist is being able to learn how to do anything. She also relies much more on her grad school “soft skills” than she expected.
Khalifa works better when he’s busier, because it helps him structure his day. You’d be surprised how much you can fit in a day if you care about it. Everyone applying for jobs is a good scientist. The soft skills you hear about and other applicable non-scientific skills make a difference. It’s important to be able to use your skills cross-functionally.
What was the transition like in the first week out of academia?
Bucci said that working for a law firm is probably different because they are so good at negotiation. For the first week, there was true corporate on-boarding, learning about support services, administrative stuff. He had to learn how to bill his time by the hour.
Crummy’s first week was a lot of orientation. It was really fast-paced in the beginning; her project was handed to her already in progress. She expected to start at the beginning of a project. It was fun and fast-paced and she got to learn lots of new stuff.
Nepper’s employer holds orientations every other week and she started on an off-week, so she didn’t really have much to do the first week. It was a lot like starting in a new lab though, getting to learn where things are and who everyone is.
Steward said that onher first day she had training, set up her computer, and got briefed on policies and security. There is ongoing training still, both through videos and hands-on workshops. She started in a new department, so if she was missing something in training or needed help she had to learn to give feedback and request additional training.
Do you see growth in your position? What’s the next step?
Crummy said the next step is hopefully getting a permanent position! Different companies have different policies about whether you can get hired right after a postdoc, so it depends on their policy exactly what the next steps would be. Some companies will let you apply if they have an open position. Some companies will create a position for you if you are good, it really just depends.
Bucci explained that being a patent agent can be a final career title. Some people do go to law school as well and then do more work with patents at law firms or in-house with companies like in pharma.
Stewart said she could aim towards being a study director, senior scientist, or something that is less in the lab and more focused on oversight, like working in a regulatory department or agency like the FDA.
Nepper said for her current position, the next step would be “senior science writer,” basically the same thing but more money, or a manager. She also said there’s the possibility of doing something between departments or in a different department.
Following the panel, there was networking in small groups over dinner. The panelists spoke to different groups, and attendees had time to talk with the panelists in depth. The audience came prepared with questions, took notes, and were engaged. There is obviously an interest in exploring careers outside of academia, and featuring recent alums, who were relatable for the audience, on the panel was a great way to share experiences, advice, and to network. The University of Wisconsin-Madison BPS Student Chapter helped arrange the Networking Event.
To see if there are any upcoming BPS Networking Events in your area, visit the Upcoming Networking Events page.
BPS will have another call for Networking Event applications from mid-September through the end of October, for events to be held in 2020. Each event selected by the Membership Committee receives up to $500 to host an event to bring together biophysicists in their local area for the purpose of networking. The criteria for submissions can be found here.